I dont get Michis ladder. Sweet potatoes and brown rice at the top? Yes these are good for you but they are also starchy so why top rung?
And why is crab so far down? Is it due to possible contamination from the water. If so that applies to any fish.
Please explain????

GREAT POST, Caroline.

I always get confused, though. What do you multiply the 13 by to lose body fat. The weight you are now or the weight you want to be??

If you want to lose, say 100 pounds, do you pick a midpoint weight or something like that??

Thanks,
John

Caroline - Great job!

Crabs are bottom feeders, like many shellfish, which means they are the filters of the ocean. It also means they collect a lot of nasty junk in their systems.

Most fish don't have that problem.

That and the fried thing should explain why they're so low on ladder, along with clams.

Oysters don't seem to collect toxins the way clams do and people often eat them raw, which would explain why they are higher on the ladder.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

Peas are on the top tier also and they are very starchy.
I know these foods are good for you but seems like they should be in the eat moderately more so than at the top due to the starches.

Fitbabe-

What's great about these boards is that they allow for all different opinions. That's how we can improve Beachbody and Michi's Ladder.

I'd be interested in learning more about your negative reaction to starch, especially in peas.

What are you basing this on?

Although Caroline stated it above, I wanted to make sure that Fitbabe understands that starch is another word for complex carbohydrates. I should have stated that plainly earlier.

Well I read FIGHT FAT AFTER FOURTY and the author Dr. Pamela Peeke says that women do NOT need dense carbs in the evening like peas and potatos etc. Cus they do not need the energy source. A tiny amount is ok and more earlier in the day is fine.

What is Michi's ladder based on anyway. I mean who came up with it and what are their credentials?
I am just curious as I am surprised by the position of some of the food items.

Fitbabe,

Based on your latest post, it appears that you haven't read Carolines posts, or don't agree with her. None of the foods you mentioned belong in lower tiers in my opinion and Caroline does an excellent job of explaining why they belong at the top. Nothing that Dr. Peeke said contradicts what Caroline said. I think it is a good idea to limit all types of food at night period. We don't need the energy to sleep that we need to get through the day, and especially our workouts.

Don't analyze this stuff to death and lose sight of the objective. Remember - the bottom line is that if we consume fewer calories than we burn, we will lose weight. Enjoy a variety of all the good food in the top tiers and you will be satisified, have the energy to do intense workouts and reduce body fat.

Jim

Well also I guess when I look at the ladder I am assuming that I should select from the top tier as often as possible.
I am not contesting the need for starches. But it would seem that since peas and sweet potatos are so starchy that they would be in a lower tier to be reached for occasionally.
Yes Dr. Peeke says we need those complex starches, but not in the late evening.
And in moderation during the day. So when I look at the ladder I just think that the top tier should have food items that could be reached for numerous times throughout the day like lettuce or brocoli..
Thats where my thought was.
I do appreciate your explaining why its sometimes best to reach for that starchy carb. I hadn't thought of it that way.
I am wondering how the ladder was developed and who developed it.
I still think it needs refinement.

I think you are trying to use the ladder in a way that it is not intended. It is not like the Food Pyramid where it is implied that the food at the base of the pyramid should make up most of the food you eat throughtout the day. By the way, you would object to the Food Pyarmid too because it would have things like brown rice at the base. Michi's ladder tiers do not imply quantities of food. For example, olive oil is in tier one. It should be in my opinion, but if you drink a cup of it for breakfast in the morning you aren't going to lose weight.

The tiers could be revamped using different criteria and if you got a room full of nutritional experts they might come out with a revised ladder after a decade or so and I would bet that 99% of the food in the top three tiers would remain in the top three tiers and that includes brown rice, peas and sweet potatoes. I say if it ain't broke....don't fix it. What is more imporant than what foods go into the tiers is to get the right balance of nutrients (Carbs, Fat, Protein) and amount of calories. That is how you can determine how MUCH of that good food to eat. Picking these foods from the top three tiers is a winning strategy. A great tool to supplement Michi's ladder is www.fitday.com.
Jim

Hi! Welcome aboard Isabelle and Dennis. I work for Weight Watchers and for the most part ate healthly most my life. I love fruits and veggies. Don't care much for red meat. So my protein is usually fish,turkey ,chicken,nuts or peanut butter (small amounts). My basic belive is there really is'nt bad foods. If people would
do them in moderation. I mean of course an apple versus a doughnut is a better choice. I think however if you want a doughnut once in a blue moon have it. But stop at one not a dozen. I know muscle weighs more than fat. A trannier once explained it this way. If you think of a pound of fat as feathers and a pound of muscle as lead the muscle is much more condensed. I understand all this. My question ? I have gained about 5 pounds. In the past year. I know this is muscle my cloths fit better and I'm fine with that. I also know that mucsle burns more calories than fat. So if I have increased my activity and I'm still eating 1,500 caloris. Why wouldn't I take this 5 pounds off? I'm 5'5 140. I was staying between 130-135 for years. Please any in put will be appreciated. Thank you!
WWG

My P90 was shipped on the 7th so I'm still waiting for it. I have heard alot about Michi's Ladder and am wondering if this will come with P90 as I can't find any specifics about it elsewhere.

Points well taken James. Yes I guess I was looking at it like the food pyramid (which I dont agree with either)
I was thinking ok I am too choose these most often and frequently.
I will try to view it differently.

TN Trooper you copy of THE WAY aka MICHI'S LADDER comes with P90

Lee

Caroline. Jim. Nice job, as usual. Very informative thread.

To give you a simple answer, Michi's Ladder is not a diet, it is simply a partial list of food choices. Like Jim said, what is most important is eating the right foods in the proper proportions of carbs, proteins, and fats. You could eat entirely off of tier one and have a terrible diet if you didn't consider the nutrient make-up of the foods you were eating. The rather simple idea on creating Michi's was to give people SOME IDEA of which foods may be better when they were choosing between like foods, and that's all. It's not a diet. It's to give you a guide when choosing between, say, cold water fish or crab, or olive oil vs coconut oil. I think Jim's olive oil example probably cleared this up for you.

I could add some more techinicalities but will keep them to need to know, since this thread is quite thorough already. Let us know if you're still confused on the subject.

Cheers,

steve

wwg,

The feathers/lead analogy is a bit inflated. Fat weighs something and it's probably closer to a 2 to 1 trade off. I do know a woman that gained 15 pounds of muscle and dropped 4 dress sizes, but that's an extreme example.

Anyway, yes, your thinking is correct. However, if it's not working than you need to explore some other things. It's possible, depending on your exercise level, that you are eating too little. It's also possible that you are eating too much and adding cals wrong (1,500 is not excessive). The most likely thing to help would be to make a major alteration in your diet. If you eat a standard ratio of carbs, proteins, and fats, you might benefit from a short cycle of higher protein, maybe a 55% protein, 25% fats, 20% carbs for a few weeks. Limit starchy carbs for this duration, then begin to add them back in balancing your diet closer 40/30/30. If you continue to be active and exercise, I think a 45(carb)/30(p)/25(f) with occasional flip-flop of fat/protein to be a good general diet. Added exercise would mean added carbs, mainly from complex sources and fruit, and eliminating processed foods and sugars whenever possible.

I wanted to know why the choices were made for each tier so I can apply the knowledge to other foods.

It makes no sense to me that say tomatoes are on tier 2 BUT "tomatoe products" are on tier 1
Or even that they are on tier 2 with all the nutrients and lack of starch they have and peas are on tier 1.

So yep I want to know how it was decided what went where and who decided it?
I am just curious what their qualifications are ..? Did a nutritionist develop it or did the folks at BB decide based on their experience?

The statement below is a quite from the fitness staff:

"Fitbabe-

What's great about these boards is that they allow for all different opinions. That's how we can improve Beachbody and Michi's Ladder."

From what I've been seeing lately, this isn't true at Beachbody right now. I've been criticized for my low-carb way of eating, even though it works great for me and I know several people who have incorporated this into their normal way of eating and have kept off lost pounds for years. It's not a diet, but a way of life.

I just discovered this thread and it almost seems like a couple of people are posing some really great and informative questions about Michi's ladder, and the answers they are getting are not totally supportive.

The question concerning who came up with this ladder still hasn't been answered. I've been trying to figure out since I received my materials in March where this plan came from and who designed it.

If your quote stated above is true, then please start being supportive of the customers who chose to follow a different way of eating.

Betsy

Wow Caroline you certainly know your stuff!

I think a point Music Teacher was making is we are not saying that Michi's ladder is a bad plan for some we are just curious about how it was developed.

Did a nutritionist develop it? Or did the folks at Beach Body put it together?

I see black coffee on tier 2 and I am just curious at who made these decisions and why.

Fitbabe -

I'm a little baffled at your distaste for the ladder.

It was developed by "the folks at Beach Body" working with nutritionists and from life experience. Although you don't really need a nutritionist to see the common sense of the list.

Tomato sauces, for some reason, contain more lycopene than just plain tomatos. Lycopene), the pigment that gives them their red color. Lycopene is a carotenoid and has powerful antioxidant properties.

Next, THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH PEAS. Not only are they an excellent source of carbs, they also contain heaps of protein, something lacking in many diets. They are full of fiber. One cup of peas offers 97% your rda for vitamin C along with lesser amounts of several other vitamins and minerals.

Finally, coffee -- without cream and sugar - is a great antioxident. Caffeine isn't that bad for you. Steve is a huge coffee proponant. If you want to discuss this one, I'll hand you off to him.

Betsy,

I like that quote you posted from Beachbody. Yes, we all can post our opinions. However, because I have an opinion that differs from yours doesn't make me unsupportive. Frankly, I am surprised that you, as a diabetic, would view the information that I posted on how high fat/protein diets can be harmful to diabetics health as unsupportive. I am not in here trying to win a debate...I truly care about peoples' health, devote most of my free time to it and have made an enormous impact on many people's lives. I don't usually go around tooting my own horn either, but to be called unsupportive is truly mind boggling. Enough of that.

I am convinced that low carb/high fat diets are unhealthy and will lead to weight regains as it has for so many people I know and so many people on these boards that have tried the low carb route and are now giving the Beachbody lifestyle a try (which is not low carb).

A low carb, high fat/protein diet may be dangerous for diabetics and is contrary to advice from the majority of the medical community and the guidance provided by the American Diabetes Association (ADA)which recommends that you get 50% of your calories from carbohydrates.

http://www.diabetes.org

http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=1330

The National Weight Control Registry tracked over 3000 people that lost an averge of 60 lbs and were able to keep the weight off for more than 5 years. The purpose of the study was to determine what made these people different from the majority of the people that lost considerable weight, but gained most of it back within 2 years. This is what those that succeeded in long term weight loss did:

1. They accepted failure and kept on trying.

2. They did not deny themselves--they indulged from time to time.

3. They weighed themselves often (for maintenance, not during weight loss).

4. They exercised one hour a day.

5. They added little bits of activity into their daily life.

6. They followed a high carbohydrate and low fat diet.

7. They ate 5 meals a day

Sounds like a winning strategy to me.

I think that Fitbabes questions on the ladder were excellent because they lead to a better understanding of how the ladder should be used and more important, how it should not be used. I think what Caroline says hits the nail on the head:

"....it's all about common sense. Follow a healthy balanced diet of protein, beans, legumes, whole grains, fruits and vegetables, restrict junk food and sugars to a minimum, exercise, drink your water, don't eat too many calories and trust me, you can't go wrong."

Jim

I am not expressing dislike for the ladder.

I just didnt get why some of the choices were made.

As an educator I prefer to know the details about what I am doing and why ..not just go along and do it.

Well you have explained it pretty well.
Thanks

Am off to get some peas for lunch!

Seriously I have been so nailed with the high fat, high protein, low carb diet that I have been viewing starchy foods as the enemy.

Obviously I need to rethink these foods.

Thanks all for your careful explanations.

Lee

Hello everyone,

I just wanted to say that your thread was quite interesting. I think Fitbabe is right in the idea that as an educator she she know everything she can about what she is doing. In my course of weight problems, I have tried a lot of different diets. When I did Atkins, I hallucinated and passed out once. After being referred to a specialist, it was determined that the Atkins diet was not a good choice for me and that I needed to eat a minimum of 40 grams of carbs in my diet. However, my sister-in-law and her mother are doing great on the diet without any of the complications that I am having. There are a tremendous amount of opinions and interpretation of reports regarding nutrition. You just have to do your research and find the one that you agree with and that works for you and does not cause you health problems. Until then, use what you do have as a guide to your personal choices regarding what you eat. I really enjoyed reading every post here and learned a lot. Power On!

KPP

Caroline - that's great advice on the different diet plans. That's certainly a lot of work to compare them all on fitday.com
...and I really appreciated your experience with carbs and muscle gain. And I did copy down all the formulas you gave so I can study it and see how to apply it.
I just received my package yesterday and in reading through the list of foods I was curious too as to why certain foods were or were not on there.
I didn't know peas were starchy or high in protein...but I still don't like 'em! I might be a little more ready to eat them though based upon the information given about their nutrient value.
Oh yes....fried crabs? Is that an East Coast thing?
Stay strong and focused
Karen

I wanted to see how you were doing with your diet making those small changes. Can you email me privately and let me know or post it?
I would love to hear from you.
Lee

I agree with you 100%. The fundamental premise is that lifestyle is learned behavior and that the best way to foster behavioral change is through learning. For example, when we understand why it is important to restrict highly refined grains, sugars and saturated fats and cholesterol from our diet from a physiological standpoint (diabetes, arthritis, cardiovascular disease, stroke, arteriosclerosis, cancer, impotence), we are more likely to restrict them. When we understand the types of triggers that lead to our eating poorly (stress, watching television, eating out, the candy dish etc.) we are more likely to learn ways to avoid them. When we understand that diets alone just don't work, we are more likely to address the problem more comprehensively by addressing the nutritional, physical activity/exercise and psychological aspects -- all critically important to long term success. With education and learning, we are more likely to weigh the benefits (looking better, healthy body, sound mind, improved self esteem, improved confidence, less stress) vs. the cost (e.g. the time/effort to exercise or sacrifice with food choices) and are more likely to make the investment that will break old habits and reinforce new behaviors.

Some believe that I am a bit of a pitbull on these boards. Well, I should say SOMEONE, but I won't mention any names Denis. My coming across like a pitbull or know-it-all should not be confused with enthusiasm to share what I have learned in the hope that others might experience the life changing experience that I have enjoyed which I believe is a direct result of learning and doing. I offer very little original material - i.e. it's not MY way. Accept for my personal experience (which is only one data point, anecdotal and shouldn't be weighed heavily) everything I offer here in terms of information comes from my study of reputable scientific, medical, health and fitness literature and the information from the fitness experts on these boards which are fundamentally all in agreement.

Jim

I dont like peas either, so will leave them for others. But thanks for the tips as to why they are top tier.

Crabs ..am in MD we eat crabs steamed, broiled, sometimes fried.

Caroline, (wow you know alot what is your background - and what type of progress have you made with Beachbody) you mention how most diets support unprocessed foods etc. Can you believe that Somersizing supports eating FRIED food! Yep..all the fried food you want (so long as you dont eat till you are stuffed) No wonder I gained 20 pounds trying to Somersize and got myself to this weight!

Jim..yes you are very demanding! I love it! Folks like you really help people like me get results.
Thanks for your support and help!

and I just wanted to say Wow! does this thread have a lot of good info on it. Kudos to Caroline and James! The two of you really know what you are talking about. I know where to post if I have any questions.

evilkat

Michi's ladder. The true origin.

I know how it got here, and I know why. The following may amaze you, frighten you, but, the truth is out there, if you really can believe...

Greetings, folks. I just had to drop in and let you know some top-secret information I found out that they DONT want you to know from the guys over at beach-body-dot-com. Michi's ladder is the result of 19 years of Painstaking Nutritional Research by The Institute, formerly located in Roswell, New Mexico. Their project was under the supervision of the NSA, until 3 million of the first tapes of Power60 were sold, before it became the Power90 we know and love today. The new, almost-fit America demanded a diet to go along with their routines, so Tony and the kids made the decision to purchase from the government this nutritional epiphany and marketed it as the dietary advice accompanying the new Power89, later changed to Power90 due to marketing techniques.

Of course, the nutritional advice was the essence, but, for gimmick's sake, they chose to put it on a ladder. (For the record, no one has ever asked why it couldn't be a stool or an ottoman. In the future, I think we all need to make sure these furniture icons, rightfully deserving, get their place in future designs of nutrition plans). So, beach-body-dot-com scoured the country and found a regular, stainless steel ladder, at Lowe's in Mooniquaqueegan, Minnesota, double-sided with a painter's stand near the top for flare. It sits today in the janitorial closet on the 2nd floor in their main offices in southern California along with Michi, the very East-Asian-sounding name who belongs to a smallish, Korean ballerina who is wondering when her first royalty check is coming. It should be worth it, after spending the last few years in the closet 8 hours a day. What a lousy job!

In case you're wondering, the point is this: Don't worry about what it is or where it came from.

It's only 90 days. Don't tell me you haven't tried every other friggin thing out there, no matter what the sacrifice, and it didn't work. It's 90 days. Just do it. Just push play. 90 days. Do Michi's ladder. Do the Power 90, and exercise common sense. Don't make it too complicated. All they're asking for is 90 days. If you want something you haven't achieved thus far, you have to do something you haven't done. Revel in becoming a mind-numbed robot, and just follow it blindly. That's what I'm going to do, and I'm proud of it.

and no blue people! (you think it's just coincidence he said that? they know more than they let on at BB.com)

I disagree with you. I have done enough damage to myself (ie gaining weight etc.) by following diets I didnt know enough about.
I dont want that to happen again.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to be educated regarding why Michi's ladder is the way it is.

I am sure the folks at Beach Body will agree with me.
Education is the best tool to getting results and keeping them.

I think you both have good points. Heather is saying that it's obvious to her that nothing in Beachbody is dangerous or controversal, so she's just going to go for it without worrying about the details.

Fitbabe is more of the type to dig around and figure out the mechanics, so that's what she does.

I have to admit, I mistook some of Fitbabe's earlier post for "confrontational" rather than "inquisitive", but that's all water under the bridge now.

However you slice it, I think you're both going to see great results, so keep pushing play and keep posting questions/encouragement here on the boards!

Coming from the land of pleasant living where crabs are a life-style, here's how to fix that problem.

Before you cook your crabs, put them into a tub of fresh water for about an hour. During the hour the crabs will filter the fresh water cleaning themselves out.

Now I saw the Iron Chef do something similar with lobsters, except he used sake. It might be an interesting thing to do the same with crabs, maybe wine or beer.

According to what I've seen crabs are a great source of protein (84% protein, 16% fat).

Just my two cents.

John

quote:

---

Originally posted by Advice Staff:
Crabs are bottom feeders, like many shellfish, which means they are the filters of the ocean. It also means they collect a lot of nasty junk in their systems.
---SNIPPED------

---

OK Jim and "Advice Staff", you've really made me think this weekend. Although I still believe that a low-carb diet can be a healthy choice, and I know for a fact that the American Diabetes Association and medical organizations aren't always correct, I am willing to try something different for a change.

After hearing lots about "The Formula" and "The A
Zone", I just bought both books from half.com and am going to make a change from my Atkins way-of-life.

I still don't want to get back into eating stuff wtih flour, sugar, etc. . . because it's pure crap for our bodies. I have no argument with a way of eating that includes good carbs, which seems to be what these 2 plans, plus the ladder have. So I can handle that.

I have recomitted myself and am considering today as Day 1 of Round 2 of Power 90. I measured myself this morning and wrote it all down. It will be interesting to see if eating this different way on round 2 will make a big difference in how I see my body responding.

I still don't totally understand this way of eating, and it will be a few days before the books get here, so any suggestions will be appreciated.

I just had for lunch: 2 slices of whole wheat bread-made from unbleached flour (some is bleached, which is bad for you), 2 slices of roast beef, a slice of swiss cheese, mayo (always a brand with minimal sugar) and a bowl of cucumber and onion salad, with an olive oil dressing.

Not having either book to go on, and like I said, being new to this, how did I do? What changes do I need to make?

Betsy

Now my next question..my first 25 days on the program I just tried to eat better. Thus far I have not lost weight or according to my body fat monitor, body fat. However I did exercise every day and my body feels fantastic.

Now I am going to commit to the diet part and use the ladder and The Formula book

Can I count tomorrow as day 26 (and begin seriously with the diet) or should I start all over with the exercise on day 1 and do the diet part also?

Thanks !

Michi's Ladder was developed back before I was invovled here. It was done by a nutritionist, and approved by Carl, Jon, and Tony, of course.

Personally, I don't agree with all of it and it will have a staff of nutritionists updating it currently. However, it's not "wrong" at all, which is always a matter of opinion to some degree (nutritionists don't always agree). It is sound and by following it with knowledge of what it is (not a diet, food choices only) you won't go wrong. Nothing in it is way off base.

I wrote this for another thread but it seems appropriate here also:

Lemme add a couple more points:

First, our (well, it was just mine at first) point all along has been to eat a balanced healthy diet, and over the long run the Atkins diet isn't, which is why we always seem against it--for the LONGTERM. However, I've never said that this diet doesn't work. It has its place in the world. Nor is 40/30/30 a hardline stance we take. Indivduals all require something different based on many factors. 40/30/30 is the best starting point for the majority of the people, but majority surely isn't all.

Myself, I could not perform at my highest level at 40/30/30. I exercise too much and burn far too much blood glycogen. Depending on what I'm doing, my carb intake my approach 65-70%, but probably averages more like 55%. I will eat much less for short periods, like if I'm trying to shed body fat for some reason (which is generally 6-10%), or am not exercising much. I've had a few bouts with Atkins, but with my body fat this low I find myself completely out of energy in about 4 days. This is normal. If, say, Lance Armstrong went on Atkins today during the Tour, he'd be out of the yellow jersey tommorrow. The next day he'd be lucky to finish the stage. A third day of racing sans carbs and he would either pass out on his bike, or die--and this is no exaggeration. Under ketosis, your body (including your brain) can only function at a fraction of its maximal level. But most people can get through life just fine at a fractional level of their body's true potential.

But don't get this statement wrong, though Atkins won't allow your body to perform maximally, it certainly doesn't mean that your perform won't drastically improve. It may not be the best diet, but it certainly isn't the worst.

This brings me to your point about being "carb dependant," which would be more aptly named "junk dependant." This condition is not a real medical conditional, but rather a politically correct term meaning that your diet has been awful. Don't take this too personally, as I'd say the majority of American's have diets I'd term "awful". Sugar is probably the biggest reason for this. It's in so many things, from the obvious, to soda (biggest culprit) and candy, to the less obvious, like (supposedly healthy) items like breakfast cereal and non-fat goodies. Unless you are extremely active and pushing your body to its ultimate state where its running out of glycogen and needs replenishment that won't upset your stomach, you NEVER need simple sugar. When does this state occur? When you are doing something like a race. What percentages of people actually engage in things like races? A very small one, which also tends to be one that takes in "race foods" and eschews things like soda. So, you have one of the largest market shares in the world, consuming vast quantities of a product they don't need and actually does their lives a disservice. Soda companies are nothing but legal drug pushers, essentially, and in my mind no different than tobacco companies. Outside of the realm of sugar, thigs don't get much better. Weird manmade stuff like transfat makes up the bulk of many 'convenience foods' that we find at the corner 7/11. Unlike good fats that we need to exist and perform, these do nothing but clog our systems and slowly kill our bodies. Even options in the more healthy realm of this world the majority of Americans live in, like Subway, provide a marginal product (granted its far superior to 2 hot dogs and a soda for 99 cents at the am/pm). Still, Subway's ingredients appear healthy but are the cheapest of the cheap. An analysis of a sandwich from Subway vs. a sandwich you might make off of a farm in Switzerland using natural ingredients grown in rich soil would astoud you. But that's probably enough examples. Atkins, when compared to the above, is a big improvement! This is why people get great results. This is why it's a good diet for some people, great for others, yet terrible for others. It's not a sustainable diet for anyone's entire life because the levels of saturated fats are too high. However, you can still greatly lower your cholestorol during the short term, for factors I don't need to go into. But if you continue on your road to fitness, you will outgrow Atkins, for certain. We have this happen all the time. It's a nice natural progression. Atkins should be treated as a tool, not a lifestyle. And don't believe all the "studies" you might find on "lowcarb.com." These guys are in business, same as the soda and tobacco companies. If you find a study and want to validate it, search medline to see if it exists.

In my experience, which is fairly extensive, most "low carb" dieters tend to eat closer to 40% carbs--strange, but true. For this reason the first thing I'll ask someone I'm working with is to tell me what they eat. I've had people "eating less that 50 grams of carbs per day" actually be eating 40% of their cals from carbs! And this is the rule, rather than the exception, and another reason why Atkins works pretty well with people. Many have carb issues far beyond what they think. I can't tell you how many people have told me they "eat no carbs," while at a party drinking a beer! Even a low-carb beer has alcohol, with makes up over half its calories (at 7 cals per gram), and do you know how your body absorbs alcohol? Like a simple sugar. So in one Michelob Ultra you're getting, probably 15-20 extra grams of carbs than what you thought! Ditto for wine and hard alcohol.

Anyway, that's enough to consider for today. I think a lot has been covered here. The problem with many "low carbers" is they tend to act like a religious cult, thinking they've been saved by this diet and want to remain faithful. But it's just a diet, or a tool, to help you improve your life. And a diet isn't something that you need to be faithful to (no matter what people making money on it want you to belive). So you do it until it FEELS like you need to change and your change as necessary. It's working for you, and that's great, so you should keep on. But if you continue to get more and more fit, you'll hit a time when it won't--I guarantee you--and you just need to keep your mind open to the possibility of changing your diet. If you do this, you'll be fine.

Fitbabe,

Keep going from day 26. No reason at all to backtrack your exericse. The natural diet progression is normal and quite common with people. As long as you stick with things they will continue to improve. You don't really need to go backwards, unless you are sick or injured, but even then time off is moving forward because it's the best thing to do.

Betsy -

You can call me Denis, if you want.

I'm impressed. The willingness to try something new like that is a character trait I've aspired to my whole life.

No one wants you to eat junk! No way! When I talk about "good" complex carbs, I'm talking whole grains, just like you!

Your lunch was pretty good. I like your thinking on the bread! I might think about either having the cheese or the mayo - there's a lot of fat in both of them. Low-fat mayo is a good option. Roast beef is ok on occasion, but you'll have much better luck with chicken and turkey. You could also slap a tomato and some lettuce on there, if you wanted.

I hope you enjoy the books. I think you'll find the philosophy isn't so alien. Keep me posted!

Denis,

I stopped at the grocery store today and bought some brown rice. I love rice, but everytime I've eaten it in the last 4 years, I felt horribly guilty because of the carbs. Like I said earlier today, this will be real interesting to see if I can eat like this and actually lose weight.

Anyway, I think that in many cases, when a food is offered in a low-fat version, some of the flavor is removed, and to compensate, sugar is added. Mayonaise is an example of this. I used to buy low-fat mayo until I found this out, so now I usually buy Hellmann's regular, which I love. For me, I consider sugar a bigger danger than the fat, given my previously mentioned diatetic-prone family tree.

Hoping my new books get here quickly . . .

Betsy

Betsy,

I agree with Denis....that is a wonderful character trait that few people have.

Given that you are interested in learning more about a way of eating that includes more carbs, I'd like to share some information on eating grain products. This doctor I often quote reads hundreds of medical and science articles on health, fitness and nutrition each month and publishes a summary report that the layman can understand. It is the latest and greatest medical and scientific information. In addition to what I have included in this post below on bread, you might want to go to www.drmirkin.com and do a search on whole grains and you will find lots of informational articles on the subject including where to buy, how to cook, how to pick whole grain products, how eating whole grains (not necessarily whole grain products) prevent diabetes, cancer and heart disease etc. Most of what I have learned about nutrition comes from Dr. Mirkins Report (I subscribe to his monthly report). All that's presented here is just information for you to consider. I am certainly not trying to tell you what to do.

Jim

ARE THERE ANY GOOD BREADS?

Diana Mirkin

Diabetics and people who are trying to lose weight or control cholesterol should avoid all forms of ground-up grains, and that includes bread. For everyone else, bread is a perfectly satisfactory food.

Breads have been made for thousands of years, in virtually every culture, to wrap, sandwich, or accompany other foods for breakfast, lunch and dinner. When ground-up grains were used shortly after milling, there was no need to remove anything or to add ingredients to keep them fresh. Only in our recent history have we turned bread into junk food by removing the germ and fiber from the grains. Even worse, some bread manufacturers add partially hydrogenated fats to their breads to prolong their shelf life.

The best way to assure that you are getting a bread that is made from whole grains, with nothing removed, is to bake your own bread made from flour you grind yourself, or buy from local bakers who grind their flour fresh every few days (these are hard to find.) Not many people are going to be able to do that. So here are my rules for picking the best of the commercial breads:

1. Avoid any bread that is made with partially hydrogenated oils. Read the list of ingredients and if it contains the words partially hydrogenated, put it back on the shelf. Partially hydrogenated oils are totally unnecessary for making good-tasting bread, and we should boycott the companies that use them in their products until they get rid of them. The prime offenders are Pepperidge Farm, Arnold and Brownberry brands.

2. Get as much whole grain flour as possible. This isn't easy to tell, because regulations allow bread makers to use the words whole wheat even if portions of the grain have been removed. Words like stone ground, multi-grain, seven-grain or cracked wheat sound healthy but don't tell you anything. Generally, breads that list whole wheat as the first ingredient are better than those that start with enriched flour of some sort.

3. Pick breads with higher fiber content. 2 grams of fiber per slice is better than 1 or 0 grams. One caution: breads promoted for their fiber content may have added pea fiber or some such ingredient; that's adding sawdust, not an indication that you're getting the whole grains. Check the list of ingredients on these breads.

4. Sprouted grain breads may cause a lower rise in blood sugar than breads made with flour, but no good data is available. The bread dough is made from whole grains that are sprouted by soaking them in water, then mashed, instead of using ground dry grains ((flour)) plus water. They usually have all the nutrients of the whole grains since nothing is removed in the sprouting process. There vitamin content of the grains is increased slightly in the sprouting process. However, these breads still cause a higher rise in blood sugar than cooked whole grains that have not been mashed into a dough.

5. Added seeds are a bonus. Many breads include seeds in the dough or as toppings. This is an easy way to add caraway seeds, sesame seeds, poppy seeds or other whole seeds to your diet.

6. Watch out for breads that taste too good. Nothing is more seductive than a loaf of freshly baked bread. A reasonable portion is 1-2 slices. If you eat the whole loaf in one sitting, or the whole basket of rolls in a restaurant before dinner comes, you'll get into trouble.

Dr. Gabe Mirkin's wife is Diana. She is a nutritionist and wrote the above article. They are a great team and you can even call and talk to them on their radio show.

Jim

I have to share this. I had tried the FORMULA book years ago and it didnt work for me. With so many folks raving about it and Michi's ladder at this site I gave it another try and still couldn't do it.
THEN I went up to the next level of eating on the Formula plan. It never occured to me to go up because I was afraid I would gain weight. And because for my weight 174 (I am a medium boned 5'4 woman) and activity level Plan B was supposed to be the plan.
Anyway yesterday I ate Plan C. To my shock I was in complete control Yes I had a few times where I was a bit hungry but it was CONTROLLED hunger.
I could eat or not. I could control my appetite.
Now I am realizing that what I ate before with all the carbos spilling insulin into my system made me more likely to eat whatever and not what I should.
For some reason I need to eat more calories than most people of my weight doing the Formula I guess..
(hmmm does this mean I have a speedy metabolism) I mean when I ate Plan B I was very hungry, but the Plan C seems to just hit the nail on the head.
Well yesterday was only day 1 but this morning my weight which had jumped up to 175 was back down to 174!
And I felt so comfortable with what I ate and so good yesterday.
My guts tell me this is going to work for me. But of course I wont know till I get back from my vacation and start working it on Monday.
BUT I THANK EVERYONE HERE FOR HELPING ME FIGURE OUT WHAT I MAY HAVE BEEN DOING WRONG FOR 13 YEARS!
Yep I am thanking in advance..thats how sure I am this will work.
But does it make sense that I can eat off Plan C and lose ?
I am not that active..I do my BBody every day 6 days per week and general stuff..so its surprising.
Thoughts and comments appreciated!

Hello all:

I ordered Power 90 for my Wife and I the other day and can't wait for it to arrive. Until then I have been reading the boards. I have seen "Michi's Ladder" mentioned serveral times, but I can't find the actual ladder anywhere.


Thanks

Your excitement brought a smile to my face too. I am not familiar with the formula, so I don't know what to tell you other than that if Caroline says it is good, I believe her. It must represent a sensible well balanced diet or Caroline wouldn't recommend it. You probably weren't eating enough!

If there's one thing that I think that would be helpful for you to understand on your quest for good health and weight loss is "carbos". Carbohydrates get a bad reputation because most of the "carbs" people eat are junk food (i.e. things made from processed grains or flour like bread, cakes, cookies, crackers, pretzels, bagels, pasta, and things made with sugar like candy, soda etc.). Carbohydrates, the way that nature presented them to us naturally on earth are great food and absolutely required to sustain life and for energy. I don't believe it was intended for these nutrients to be placed on this earth to die on the vine. The closer you eat carbohydrates to the way that nature put them on this earth, the healthier they are to include oats, wheat berries, brown rice, wild rice and carbohydrates in vegetables, beans and fruits. To me, these good foods are "CARBOS" and are in fact not the enemy, but are essential for good health. Good high fiber carbohydrates such as these do not cause that insulin spike and desire for more and fat storage like junk food does...they release it slowly which is what you want to have happen. That is the way we are designed....to process foods designed by nature, not man made junk that people call "carbos". It would probably be more accurate to replace the word "carbos" with "junk food" in your post.

OK...I feel better now.

Wait, one more thing. I loved Steve's post. I'd like to add that it is not only 7/11, but every supermarket in the country's shelves are probably 85% junk food.

My favorite Doctor always asks people when they grocery shop, "What should you do after you've shopped in the produce section? ANSWER: "You should go to the cereal section and buy your whole grains and whole grain cereals" "And, what should you do after you are done in the cereal section" ANSWER: "You head for the door" I love it!

Jim

Because I am supposed to be on Plan B as my activity level is doing P90 which is about 3 hours a week.
And my weight is 174 which is in Plan B.

Why did you think Plan C was the correct one?

I dont regard myself as all that active. So I was selecting the Plan B for that reason also.

Caroline, Do you think I could have a high metabolism or something? I am wondering.

Also I am doing the maintenance and fat flush mixed.
I got to thinking that if I weigh 174 now I must have overeaten a lot of calories, so at Level C 1500 cals approx. I should still lose.

Even doing the maintenance as opposed to fat flush I should lose and as a carbo junky it makes it easier for me to do.

Any thoughts???? Would really appreciate your input.

Riffraft -

You'll find the legendary ladder in the diet guide that comes with your tapes.

I can't wait to get the program so that my wife and I can start. I am about 1/2 way through my weight loss (35 lbs so far), but I have been doing mostly Aerobic (bicycling) up until now so I am somewhat flabby in the upper body compared to where I would like to be.
I went to the Fitday sight yesterday and plugged my average food intact and was surprised to find that I am only getting about 1,500 calories a day: 6', 210 big boned (I know everyone says that, but it is true , 44 in a couple of months.
I have been pretty good about my diet.
Usual daily diet:
Breakfast - Fruit Protein Shake & Banana
Lunch - Salad, With Chicken or fish for protein
Dinner - 2 Tofu Hotdogs
All my life I have had a slow metabolism, my entire family does. Unfortunately, obesity runs in my family: Father 420lbs, brothers, 440lbs, 380lbs, & 350lbs. Only my sister and I have every managed to control our weight and I have been up and down over the years. I usually manage to maintain my weight for about 5 to 7 year segments then I will have a few years where I loss control and have to lose weight (I have lost more than 60lbs 4 times since I graduated High School a little under 30 years ago). I know I need more Varity in my diet, but I find foods that I like and that are healthy and tend to not change them. There are times when I lose control and gorge, but usually no more then one meal once every week or two. I guess that I normally eat so few calories because I find that if don't keep strict control on my food consumption I can eat huge amounts of food in a single setting. My question would be is 1,500 calories not enough for my body type when I start Power 90?

What is your height, weight and goals..if you dont mind sharing?
Do you use the Formula book or follow the Zone?


I think the Formula folks make the cut off at 4 hours of activity. So I count Tony at 6 days a week at about 3 hours.
So hence I thought with my weight I was slated for the Plan B.
BUT I also mow the lawn twice a week and it takes about 4 hours.
However the rest of the time I laze about! LOL
Seriously I dont do alot so I thought Plan B was it.

I am thinking though that really Plan C should be just fine. Its not that many calories anyway.
So today I did day 2 of Formula and so far so good.

Tomorrow I am off on vacation and will get seriously serious when I get back. Then I will see if its going to work for me ..I hope so and I think so.

Fitbabe,

Have a great vacation.

Jim

In terms of keeping it simple - generally speaking, the closer it is to the form that it is presented to us by nature (the fruit instead of the juice, the grain instead of the bread) the better it is for you.

Jim

Hey everyone,

I was reading the thread again, finally, to see what else had been said and I noticed a mistake in my previouse post regarding my carb intake. I was suppossed to write 40% of my calories from carbs, not 40 grams-talk about low-carb! That's one slice of bread (sorta). I have brought that down to 30% recommended here at the boards and all I really had to do was cut out all the junk food I was eating. I do follow Michi's ladder as much as I can and so far I really like it. I really didn't have to cut out too many things. Controlling my portions is the hardest thing but not the food choices. I've lost 15 pounds in 23 days on P90 and I'm really enjoying it. I just didn't want anyone to read that and think I was crazy! (Although I am BB crazy!I hope everyone gets their nutritional questions answered as best they can.
Caroline: Thanks so much for the math quiz! I use it all the time and I sent it to my mom who is used it also and she says she's making progress.
Fitbabe: I'm sorry I never wrote you back. I posted on the 12th and didn't come back to this board again until today. I see you have found something that you think will work for you and you are comfortable with your choice. Congratulations and good luck!
Denis: Ur sorry, Fitness Advisor: Thanks so much for the great help.

I will try not to eat too much of the DEATH BY CHOCOLATE DESSERT at the Trellis in Williamsburg..
It will be tough though.

I do have Tony packed. Yep the man is going along with me.
Plus I will remember all that I have read here and try to keep my diet clean for the most part.

Be back early next week.

Riffraft -

That diet's a good start. The diet guide will explain a lot more. Let me know after you've read it!

Hey James, hey everyone!

I read the post about the grocery store and I just wanted to say that my doctor told me to walk in, and walk around the outermost isles only. I do that now and only go to the cereal isle like james said. It sure does make shopping faster and easier

I just started reading Atkins last night to get a perspective on "The Formula" which I expect this week. From reading these posts and other stuff I think I see what Atkins is getting at. He says no junk food, no sugar, but I think he threw out the baby with the bathwater with his heavy carb restriction. Caroline's posts have been particularly helpful there. As I understand it, haven't gotten to that part of the book, he does allow more carbs after you've reached your weight goal.

But I wonder, if you consider Atkin's audience, it is definitely NOT the Beachbody fitness FANATIC! Maybe it makes sense for the typical US couch potato who might now, finally, start to walk around the block in the AM. Not going to really burn a heavy dose of carbs like Sweat or Sculpt.

Atkins had me worried until your post which seems to put carbs in a much more realistic perspective.

Just a suggestion, it might be helpful, if the ladder is being "reconstructed" to make a distinction (like Caroline did) in "good" carbs and "bad" carbs. Maybe that's already there but it's hard for me to see and when you read the ingredients on the box labels, it just says "carbs".

Just my two cents, but this is the BEST THREAD on BB yet!!!

John

Hey John. I like your fresh perspective. You can't lose by educating yourself for sure! If you want to take it to the next level, you might do a little research by reading unbiased health, fitness and nutritional literature. I think that what you will find that the nutritional information in books like the formula is for the most part supported by the scientific literature. Let's put it this way, it comes closer than these other high this, low that, no this, all that diets. Throwing the baby out with the bath water is a great analogy!!!!!!

Jim

I've been intrigued reading through this thread. I have a few questions. 1. I've seen this "Formula" all over. Is this a book? Who puts it out? Where can I find one? It sounds as though it is an eating guideline; is that true? I would like to get my hands on it!

2. How do I figure out this 40-30-30 (or whatever it is) into actual grams of carbs, protein and fat for each day. My husband and I are definitely eating much healthier but we both seem to be fretting a little about if we are getting too much of this or that. I've followed many diets before but keeping track of complex carbs, junk food carbs, etc. is all new to me. I thought a carb was a carb! I guess that's not true! I was like one of the other gals thinking I was only supposed to get 40 grams of carbs a day. I figured out quickly that that was impossible but . . . ? Help!

3. We are doing the P90. I've read that it's important to do circuits every other day to give your muscles a rest. I'm wondering if I take a walk in the evenings, would wearing ankle/wrist weights be OK whether it was on the same day of the circuit or the in-between day? And, also, is it OK to do the abs workout everyday?

OK, I guess that's it for now. I'm sure I'll have more tomorrow! I'll be sure to check back in. Thanks so much! Amy

I don't know what Caroline's response will be but I've been supplementing my routines with riding my bicycle in the evening (I work out around 5:30AM.) I haven't been pushing myself until two days ago when I rode the best time I've ridden for months. While I can't see much in visible results yet (only been 2 weeks + 2 days), I KNOW SOMETHING is happening.

I have been perusing the P90X part of the BB site and picked up the concept of eating as many grams of protein as your weight in kilograms. I worried about that after reading it until I started counting the protein and think I'm pretty much in line based on my current eating plan. (I do take a whey protein supplement.) Protein grams are posted on all foods so it's pretty easy to figure out if you're getting enough by that method.

I ordered "The Formula" from Amazon.com (just search on the title). Should be here Monday. I think the 40-30-30 are percentages of carbs, protein and fat, but don't quote me on that. If that's true, however, it doesn't seem to be too far out of line with what Atkins is proposing. But everything I read tells me Atkins can't possible succeed for P90 folks in the long run because we definitely need the carbs.

This is fascinating stuff!

John

hi trimnfit! my name is amy too!!!

i'm NO caroline (isn't she just a marvel?), but i see that your questions haven't been answered yet, so i thought i'd just give you some basics:

The Forumula: A Personalized 40-30-30 Weight Loss Program by Gene and Joyce Daoust (authors of Formula 101 and 40-30-30 Fat Burning Nutrition)

A CARB IS NOT A CARB! (or: all carbs ARE NOT CREATED EQUAL!) this is because each carbohydrate has a different glycemic index (high/medium/low) and the introduction to the aforementioned book explains this well. basically, the carbs you ingest should come from the lower glycemic category and from whole grain products. PROCESSED carbs (snack foods, cakes, cookies, candy, etc) should be completely avoided. you will be amazed to find that even some fruits and vegetables should be eaten in moderation because they have a high glycemic index (the rate at which they raise your blood sugar). here's a quote from the authors: "The glycemic rating of a carbohydrate food is based on that food eaten alone. When carbohydrate foods are eaten together with protein and fat, the overall glycemic effect of that meal will be different. Protein and fat slow the digestion of carboydrates so that glucose trickles into the bloodstream, lowering the glycemic response and keeping blood sugar levels steady. Therefore, white bread alone or bread with jelly would cause a substantial rise in blood glucose levels. But a sandwich consisting of white bread with sliced turkey, lettuce, tomato and avocado will have a lower glycemic resposnse, digest more slowly, and maintain steady blood sugar levels." (though that sandwich just mentioned should be eaten with WHOLE GRAIN bread!) reading this book (and living by it) has been an extraordinarily enlightening experience for me!

a good way to track your eating is fitday.com. this way, you can get a visual display of the percentages of fats/carbs/proteins you ingest with each meal.

i'm not sure what you mean about the "day in-between" workouts with P90. it is a 6 day on/ONE day off program. you alternate between the sculpt (weight training) and sweat (cardio) routines. if you follow the program as it is intended to be followed, you don't NEED to add to your workout program. however, NUTRITIONALLY SOUND meals are a MUST. you will not succeed with focusing on workouts alone. and tony h. has stated repeatedly that there is NO NEED to do additional ab-work to trim that area of the body. in order to achieve results in the stomach region, one must eat clean, BURN THE FAT (that means intense cardio) and train the muscles (ab routines) no more than 3 days a week. some people have the misconception that the more ab work they do, the better. however, you will never SEE those abs until the layer of fat that covers them is gone. all the crunches in the world will not make that happen.

wow, this reply ended up being much longer than i had originally intended.

i LOVE this thread, btw! thanks to all who fill it with a bevy of sound scientific information and personal insight.

good luck on your journey, amy--keep us posted!

Knowledge is powerful! Great points. One thing you might add to your discussion about carbs is one of the more important things about carbohydrates in my opinion - that is fiber. Both Carolines and my posts have good information on that aspect of carbohydrates. Check out www.drmirkin.com and do a search on fiber if you want to learn more about how important it is for wieght loss, management and good health to include reducing risk for cancer and heart disease prevention.

Jim

John - Thanks for your input. I like the suggestion of your weight in kilograms equalling your grams of protein per day. That's an easy way to get it figured out.

Amy - Your response was very informative and encouraging. I like the fitday.com website. Lots more info! As far as the in-between day I was talking about, I was just referring to the days I do the cardio (which would be "in-between" 2 circuit days! Does that make sense?!) Anyway, I'm not working out more on purpose, necessarily, but if I happen to go for a walk with my kids or something, I would like to take advantage of the opportunity and carry hand weights with me or put ankle weights on. Interesting about the abs. I thought more ab work was all a part of removing the layer of fat that covers them. Boy do I have alot to learn!

I have gotten lots of great information from this thread. I'm looking forward to checking it often and getting to know people. Thanks again for your responses. I'll keep you updated as to my progress. You all do the same. Have a great weekend! Amy

Is it possible that crabs, like shrimp, contain quite a bit of cholesterol and are therefore not considered the best bet for a healthy diet?

Although, I have been reading a lot lately about dietary cholesterol and trans-fats. It seems that dietary cholesterol won't contribute as much as previously thought to blood cholesterol and heart disease, but trans fats are just a disaster.

I digress...

What an interesting thread. I thank you all for your great input. What I try and do is limit my non-vegetable carbs such as bread or cereal or potato to two meals per day only, and usually I try and avoid for dinner. The problem is I know we don't burn as many calories at night so we don't need the calories for "fuel" per se, but I am hungry from having an active day!

I was driving myself crazy counting calories and trying to find some kind of magical perfect balance for me, then I finally decided screw it, no more crazy stuff and just be sensible. I read an article that said you should divide the plate in quarters and fill two of them with vegetables, one with a complex carbohydrate and one with a protein. I like that appraoch, If it is something like a sandwich where the components are not seperated like that I go by the listed serving size and have one serving, so for example, two slices of bread, two slices of turkey with condiments. I will put this on a small plate and then have a side salad and maybe an extra vegetable. It may not be a perfect diet but it is the best I can do.

I like your approach!!!! Simple and Sensible! I never heard of the dividing the plate in quarters idea, but it is a great one.

Hey, let's write a book and make millions. We'll call it "Eating Between the Lines - A Simple and Sensible Approach to Weight Loss" That will be "the spin" In fact, we can sell the plates too with dividing lines painted into them and little pictures of veggies, whole grains and lean meats in the four sections. - I can see it now - Time Magazine - "A revolutionary approach to weight loss - eating a balanced diet and staying between the lines - a skill we learn as young children"

In all seriousness, I think your thought process on eating is a winner.

Jim

Dr. Mirkin has been mentioned here a number of times. I get his newsletter and like his information. Here's an interesting article:

Eight glasses of water a day? Don’t believe that, either:

www.drmirkin.com/nutrition/9942.html

He states that the largest number of calories should be ingested at breakfast, fewer at lunch and even less at dinner. As he puts it, "Eat like a King for breakfast, a Prince for lunch and a pauper for dinner." Since I exercise in the morning that works just perfectly since I think I'm getting the maximum benefit right after the maximum effort.

I also ride my bicycle for about 1 hour after lunch so that burns off the lunch calories pretty well.

I'm usually tired by 9:00PM (up at 5:00AM usually) so a light dinner fits in there well.

I looked at fitday.com and I'd suggest, if you want to spend the money, looking at www.dietpower.com. They have a pretty neat program that will allow you to track your food and exercise really easily. They have a massive database of foods with all the nutrients listed and you can add your own stuff as well. You can do all kinds of searches on the food by nutrient, etc. They also have a number of charts; the weight chart is what I like. It tracks your weight and shows you, at your current rate of loss, what your projected weight should be at the end of your goal. I'm kind of anal so this works well for me.

John

James- they do make plates like that :-) But that is not where I got the idea. I got it from an article in Prevention magazine, and I know Jorge Cruise has it as the basis of his new book, which my mother has. I looked at several diet books in the bookstore, and they all felt wrong to me. I would not for example eat a donut every day or even every week, but I resent this idea that if once in a blue moon I want one, I am not "allowed." I just try and be sensible.

My problem lately has been balancing the idea of eating when you are hungry, and getting the right amound of calories at the right time. I am never hungry during the day, but if I do not eat enough I am starving by dinnertime and eat way too much. So what I have been doing is following the weight watcher points system and dividing the points among the meals, so that I am eating roughly even percentages of the day's food at regular times. It has been good so far. What I do is follow the appraoch I mentioned above where I have mostly vegeatbles, a little bit of protein and either a grain (e.g. at breakfst and lunch) or if it is dinner and I am not having a grain, I will count the salad dressing or condiments as that type of thing.

JOHN - I used to listen to Dr. Mirkin during my long commute home from Washington DC to Frederiskburg, VA over 7 years ago. I was fascinated with the subject, but I don't quite know why because I ate terribly and had no interest in exercise. Perhaps I knew some day that I would apply what I learned. Much of what I learned from him I did ultimately apply to my eating during Power 90 and continue to apply his advice of eating fruits, vegetables, whole grains, beans, nuts, seeds and fish. I have recently subscribed to the Mirkin Report. It's a great report for $39 a year where he reviews hundreds of reports each month and summarizes the latest and greatest scientific and medical studies studies and reports on health, fitness and nutrition in about an 8 page report in laymans terms.

WRITERGIRL,

I have unusual control over what I eat on a regular basis. Probably more than most people have. HOWEVER, if I get hungry...I lose it completely. Sort of like losing judgement after drinking alcohol......I am very vulnerable to not only eating too much, but eating the bad stuff that almost killed me. How do I deal with that? I just don't let myself get hungry. I am able to prevent hunger by eating 5 - 6 meals a day. If I had only one thing that I could say to people about controlling portions and food choices, it would be DO NOT let yourself get hungry. A donut here and there won't kill you, but if you are starving, you might just eat the whole box!

Jim

That's good thinking, Laura. Here are some numbers:

Shrimp, canned, 3oz = 147mg of cholesterol

Shrimp, mixed species, cooked, moist heat, 3oz = 166mg of cholesterol

Crab, Alaska King, cooked, 3oz = 45mg of cholesterol

Crab, blue, cooked, 3oz = 85mg of cholesterol

Not super on the cholesterol, but not at shrimp levels!

[This message was edited by Advice Staff on 07-21-03 at 09:19 AM.]

Great Thread! This has been both educational and entertaining morning reading for me. I've been glued to the screen. I started at the top and "couldn't put it down" as I waited, and waited, and waited, and waited for somebody to FINALLY answer poor Fitbabe's question about Michi's Ladder. I had posted the exact same question at least 6 times since I've started P90 in March, and NOBODY would answer me! I began wondering what the heck they were trying to hide from us! Was it all a big hoax? Who the heck was Michi? And what was the exact science behind his or her nutritional advice. Whew! Finally! We broke the code! (Well...not completely...I still don't know who the heck Michi is!)

Thanks everyone for your posts. But, according to Caroline, I'm eating way too few calories for my activity level and weight (By the way, Caroline, I'm sure that you're a lovely person, but people like me want to hurt people like you! 5'10" and 145!!!!! That's just not human!!!

Here's to happy eating!
Gwyn

Michi is a word that means "The Way." You climb the ladder to successful eating to find the way to good health and nutrition. It's all rather symbolic really. I can't speak for beachbody.com, but that's what I have deduced over time as I've read posts from the fitness advisor and researched health and nutrition issues is that it represents a list of foods and rough categorizations of foods based on how they can help you reach your fitness and nutrition objectives.

Is it perfect? No.

Is it rocket science? No. There are many similar lists and there is great overlap (just look at any 2 or 3 lists of low glycemic foods).

Does it list only the foods I should eat? No.

Is it based on any one study? No. It attempts to give you direction. Like any good path, you can follow it straight or wonder down side paths or into the flowers along the path. As long as you are going in this general direction you'll get where you want to go...

The foods aren't on here because they are high fiber, low glycemic, low carb, low fat, etc. They are on there because they support a nutritious well rounded way of eating. There are fats in the higher tiers because some fats are good for you in the right proportions. There are lean meets in the lower tiers because those lean meets have other components (fats) that aren't so good for you. The fat in almonds is better for you than the fat in lean beef. So Almonds is high on the list and beef is low...

It says is small print its a guideline. I took it as a guideline of healthy foods. I found other resources that list other healthy foods and I eat the ones I like off of all the available lists. It did teach me to look for high fiber, low glycemic foods or foods with excellent nutritional values that might offset some of their down sides.

Does that help? I'm sure someone at beachbody or someone they hired put it together, but I don't think that's the important issue. If it is for you, then use one of the other sources (like The Formula).

Brice

Brice, Jim, Steve and Caroline all batting away on one thread.

Jeez, I feel like I'm watching Super Friends cartoons again.

I'll be Aquaman.

Couple comments, Adelle Davis a famous nutritionist from an earlier day was the first to say eat breakfast like a king, lunch like a prince or queen and dinner like a pauper...

You all will kill me for this but I read some fascinating reports on the NEW starch blockers. I had tried fat blockers (like BB sells here) I think they work (I did extensive research into chitosan) but I dont eat a lot of fat. Anyway I am definately eating a more balanced way to keep my insulin levels stable and keep myself from wild eating BUT I decided to try the new starch blockers also after reading a bunch of information. Its too early to tell results and I am sure some of you will give me grief for trying it but ......

Who can ask more questions than a single member?
Who can ask the same question more ways than a month of Sundays?
Who can ask the same question different ways until he gets the answer he wants?

Yes its Questionator. Evil Questionator soon to be defeated by Carbo Woman (Caroline), Aquaman (Denis), FAD Man (Steve and he's really Fitness Advisor Dude, but that's too long to type), Hand Stand Man (James), and Questionators former side kick Advice Seeker (Brice), now converted to the ways of the good and healthy by FAD Man!

Together they battle Questionator and his evil gang of Fatso, Crazy Lazy, and the Snacker.

This epic battle continues... Stay tuned to this same healthy HTML, Same healthy message board, same healthy time (ok 24X7).

This message brought to you by Carl Daikeler, Super Executive. Able to bring fitness solutions to 100s of thousand of consumers with a single infomercial and his trusted partner Jon Congdon, P90Xpert, personally experiementing to make us all better specimens.

Brice : Thanks, dude. Loved your response. My frustration before I found this thread was not with my disagreement with Michi's Ladder, but with the complete reluctance of anyone to answer me when I would ask them where it came from, who devised it, and if there was scientific data behind it. You guys are literally the first ones to answer ANY of these questions for me! I really was feeling weird about the total silence! (OK...I must admit that I actually am a rocket scientist, so when you said that "it wasn't rocket science, I had to laugh. I didn't expect that it was....I was just hoping that it was well researched since it was so different from other lists of "good foods" I'd seen over the years. Some are just a bit different than common practice.)

I appreciate all of the patience and time you have all taken to go into detail for Fitbabe (even if she seems bent on a quick fix of starch blockers)

Fitbabe: I hope you reconsider. I gained 85 pounds 10 years ago WHILE trying all of those fad diets, pills, and diet plans. About 5 years ago, I finally quit the neurotic behaviour, doubled my calorie intake, followed the 40-30-30 ratios, and FINALLY started losing weight. After very slowly losing 35 pounds over a few years, I hit a plateau. Even though I know better, I still slip every now and then and eat less than I should. This past weekend is a good example. My old mental tapes convinced me to eat less to break through my recent plateau so I subconsciously "forgot" to eat, and went down to under 1000 calories per day for 3 days. The results this morning is that it caused me to GAIN 3 pounds. That's enough to slap me back to reality and start eating more again.

This thread was a good slap back to reality. Thanks, guys! (and gals)

Gwyn

Look I too have tried my share of diets and pills etc. But isn't it possible that some of these things can help.

I mean if fat blockers cant help then why is BEACHBODY selling them?
And if fat blockers can help then maybe starchblockers can.

I understand I have gotten fabulous advise here. I am using it. I have sticking as close as I can to the 40/30/30 plan..

But does that mean I have to close my eyes to other possibilities of things that may help also.

btw, I answered the michi question as directly as possible a long time ago, but perhaps it was missed amongst all the more interesting info here.

Chitosan was a very early BB product. It's now out of line with the other things we do and we don't spend any time promoting it. I do know a lot about it and have researched and written on it. I think it can be a valid supplement for some people at certain times. As a general rule, I don't recommend it. Sure, it can work but it's kind of like Caroline said, if you eat better you don't need it. The downside is that it blocks absorption of essentially fatty acids as well, meaning it must be used with prudence. I have some studies where it has worked as a last resort for some women. This makes it worthy to me, even as nothing but an option when nothing else seems to work.

I have not done much research into "starch blockers," instead I've simply discounted them. Essentially, carbs help your body perform better. Therefore they should be eaten for performance and not blocked. Excess carbs should be eliminated from the diet, instead by not eating them. Okay, this may sound obvious so let me do a little research and see if I can come up with anything....

Also, I'm almost always for experimentation. It's the best lab there is, though it can be slightly dicey, health wise. But if you're willing to take the risk and you trust your ability to stay in control and not pick up bad habits, experimentation is a great way to learn about how things work with your body.

Analysis of "starch blockers" to follow...

Fitbabe : I wish you all the best. I just know how much damage I did to my body during those dieting and desperate years, and how painful it is now to try to get it back to the place where I once, stupidly, thought was unacceptable. I have other medical issues (hypothyroidism and food allergies) that make it much more difficult to lose than for most people, but I'm also convinced that all of the dieting and pills I tried did some major damage to my body, which just adds to the problem.

But we're all adults here, so you are ultimately the one that will choose your path. And I sincerely hope that it works for you. I just know that I'm not willing to risk it. (By the way...I didn't even know that BB sold fatburners. I'm a little surprised by that, but I'll bet that they are herb based)

Gwyn

Here are two very similar articles:

http://www.weight-loss-i.com/starch-blockers-for-weight-loss.htm

http://www.newhope.com/nfm-online/nfm_backs/Nov_01/starch.cfm

another:

http://www.click10.com/health/2302427/detail.html

This article has shown up many times. My guess is that it's written as an ad by the company and distributed through a news wire service to look like a legitimate article.

http://www.post-gazette.com/healthscience/20030701hnostarch2.asp

This is more telling (from Pub Med):

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1374185&dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=6414283&dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=6358146&dopt=Abstract

I'm stopping now. There are more studies but these findings were pretty consistant.

Bottom line, don't waste your money.

Exactly fitbabe. Keep those eyes and ears open and with time you'll learn to recognize the promise vs the delivery. I didn't know BB sold fat blocker's per se. I think they have products with proported fat blocking ingredients. I use them precisely for the reason you state. They have all the vitamins and minerals I need and what I perceive as safe amounts of some of the borderline stuff. If it works, great. If not I'm still getting the best quality vitamins...

I agree, but I do tend to agree with the argument that if you don't teach your body to do it naturally, when you come off the pill you'll have new problems.

It's a matter of choice. if you go in informed, you leave informed. Make informed choices. If you feel informed, do what feels right.

Can I get an amen?

Brice

Thank you for taking the time to provide the links. However most of the articles were from the 80's or included information on the old starch blockers.
Old starch blockers did not work.
I did a lot of looking into it though and found articles that indicate newer starch blockers show promise.
I am not going to get into if they work or not ..I dont know yet.
BUT the articles you have linked to are mostly on the older blockers so I dont think I can dismiss starch blockers based on that information.

Several of the articles (from your links) refer to studies of starch blockers done in the 80's..
I am talking about newer starch blockers that were not around them.
No I dont know if these work but I am keeping an open mind.
As far as chitosan goes, it does work but also leeches vitamins etc.

I will be happy to take your $1 Got!

Meantime I think you are referring to the regular vitamins Beachbody sells. I was referring to the FATBAN product they carry.
This is chitosan and asorbic acid which makes the chitosan work optimally.
I did a lot of research into chitosan and I am convinced it works but it also has problems associated with it. Regardless I use it occasionally and have found it effective.

Recently though I have read about the newer starch blockers and found them interesting. I dont know if they work or not.

I just found this thread after 41 days of P90 and following Michi's ladder. FASCINATING STUFF!!!! Here are my two cents. The only two times I have lost weight (i.e. unhealthy body fat) and managed to keep it off are my senior year of college and NOW. And what made the difference at these two times in my life????? I ate lots of vegetables of ALL kinds and colors, lots of fresh fruit, a little bit of lean meat and whole grains (mainly oatmeal and brown rice). So, is it rocket science???? Absolutely not. Does it work the way God intended our bodies to work? Absolutely.

The diet pills (of all varieties) didn't work. The forays into cardio or strength training didn't work (because they weren't accompanied by changes in my eating habits). The carbohydrate addicts diet didn't work. Well, it did, until the minute I ate carbs again; then I undid all the progress I'd made. What works is what works. Healthy VARIETIES of food and good, overall, fitness and exercise training.

Sometimes I think I need a brick upside the head to see the obvious.

Keep up the discussion, folks. It's good to gain knowledge...but don't sweat the small stuff. Happy eating!

It's been fun following the different opinions here, but I think Fitbabe has made up her mind already.

My view is that there are many diets and choices because there are many people out there with different lifestyles, habits, metabolisms, etc. A particular diet or product might work for one person and not for another. Now this success might be prolonged or temporary.

The main reason folks hear feel strongly about the bbody approach is that it produces sustained results in a great variety of body types and lifestyles. I've had sustained results (weight loss, fitness, lower cholestoral, lower blood pressure) w/bbody for 2 years now.

Fitbabe, I say go for it. Hopefully you achieve your fitness goals, with good health, and sustain the results for the next 2, 3, 4 years and beyond. If you find that the magic pills don't work after 2 wks or 2 months, then you're always welcome to switch back to the approach espoused throughout these boards.

Best of luck, and keep pushing play.

Bill R.

Didn't even know they sold such a thing... So much for effective marketing

Brice

I am definitely trying to eat as healthy as I can.
And I think the Beachbody approach is the way to go.

However BB sells supplements to maximize results.
And many believe that supplements can enhance results or even make a program easier.

I just read about the starch blockers and they sounded like they might give me a bump in the right direction though I dont know yet.
That does not mean I would use them as a substitute for good eating ..just maybe as a get started boost.

Hi - I just came across this thread this morning - and found it interesting in informative. My husband and I finished the 90 days with Power90 and both lost weight and inches, but not a s much as we had hoped. When we sat down and really thought about it we realized that we had eaten the way we really should for the first 30 days and then gave in a few too many times with the thought of well, I'm working out I can eat that. We have recommitted to another 90 days (atleast) have made it to day 30 and are doing much better. The combo of eating properly and exercising is really the way to go! Keep up the good work - I really enjoyed reading this. Meg

I ordered the supplements yesterday. I am nervous about it. Not having done so well in the past on different supplements. But I trust BB so am going full out. Aside from that when I tried to cancel the supplement part of my order I was told the systems are down for a week..so I couldnt anyway!
I ordered the Slimming Formula and the Performance.
I tried the activit but the iodine makes me break out.

MEG! Good going on your progress. Even though you didnt make as much as you wanted too..its a journey and you will get there.
How nice you and your hubby are doing this together.

I am trying to focus not on what I am giving up but what I am gaining.

I've been lurking! First of all let me say, GREAT DISCUSSION! And ALOT of great info and advice.

My story, I'll make it quick:

I am a 40 yr old man, weighed 210 2 years ago. Went on Atkins diet and lost 55 lbs in about 8-9 months doing the FOUR phases. Have kept it off ever since. I am on day 67 of Power90. I am so active now that I can eat lots of fruit and even some potatoes and corn. I DO NOT consider myself a low-carber any more. I just only eat fresh healthy foods. If I do want a reward snack, I use the low carb protein bars or nuts. I don't eat stuff that I personally still consider junk food such as white bread, white rice, and white pasta, anything with trans fats or breading. However, I am also NOT a low fat dieter. I eat meat and eggs, just with normal size portions.

OK, I am not familiar with these other plans like the Formula. But I am very curious and want to learn all I can. I think I already intuitively do those plans but want to make sure. I am buying the book this week. I want to find out what works best for me to develop more muscle. Any suggestions from the staff on that?

Thanks and keep up the good work!

Bill

Hi Billthom
Congratulations on your great success with Atkins. In my circle of friends, family, and associates, you are truly the exception for that plan working in the long run. In my own case, my cholesterol went up 35 points in 1 month on Atkins. They claim that it won't hurt you, but I'm living proof that it did. The only plan that has ever worked for me on a long term basis is "The Zone". After being on these boards and hearing so much about "The Formula", I went out and bought the book, and was pleasantly surprised to see that it is basically "The Zone For Dummies". "The Zone" provides a great background, sound research, and scientific reasons for how and why most of us need that ratio of carbs, fats, and protiens (40-30-30), and "The Formula" cuts to the chase and gives lots of easy recipes, food plans, and shopping plans. Then, to top it off, Beach Body goes one step further and tells you to follow the 40-30-30 rule, but carry around your "Michi's Ladder" list of best food selections, second best, and third best when you shop or are out at restaurants.

I think that both "The Zone" and "The Formula" will offer you suggestions on how to modify your diet for different kinds and levels of exercise. Both sets of authors have many books out to cover all sorts of combinations of people and circumstances.
Welcome, and good luck with your new program!
Gwyn

Hey Bill -

One thing you can do is to try and overeat protein for a week or two. (I remember some of our conversations, so it's sort of ironic, me telling you that, huh?) This would mean making sure that you get some protein, between 20-40 grams, each time you eat and bringing the protein content of your diet up to over 50%. For carbs, restrict all starches and mainly use fruits and veggies as a carb source. Keep your fats low and get most of it from fish, nuts, seeds, and avocados. Also, make sure that your electrolyte balance is okay and even supplement with something like Pedialyte if necessary. Also, I'd recommend a mineral supplement.

A couple of weeks of eating like this should yield some changes. Your muscle mass should increase, your fat should decrease, and your energy level should go up and then down. As it drops, start adding more carbs back into your diet but in the form of whole grains, not sugar or processed foods.

Let me know how this works.

I've seen this advice given on a few other threads by Steve. I think I've also heard that this sort of thing might be used in the Power 90X. I'm interested to know under what circumstances you recommend such a diet and what is happening physiologically to make it work. I understand that it is only being suggested on a very short term basis so I am not against it, I just want to understand it.

Below is what I understand about what happens when consuming a high protein/low carb diet in general. We could use this as a basis for discussion.

When the body does not have sufficient carbohydrates as an energy source, it will become more capable of using protein stored in muscles for energy. However, protein is not a preferred source of energy so heavy reliance on it is abnormal. This process is called gluconeogenesis and relying on it to a large extent for energy is abnormal. It is that process, combined with abnormal fat metabolism (as would occur if one is on the Atkins diet) that results in Ketosis.

So, when I go on such a diet, I want to understand what is going on with my body that would allow me to gain (or maintain) muscle mass (especially if protein is being taken from muscle tissue for energy) and allow me to use more stored fat for energy.

I am assuming that you are recommending taking a mineral supplement because the processes described above result in potassium and calcium depletion and that PediaLyte would address electrolyte imbalances as a result of water loss.

So, now that you know what I know about these processes you can tell me which, if any, are in action from this 2 week diet. Then I am sure I will have another round of questions.

Thanks! This is such an incredible resource to have at ones fingertips. You folks have no idea how much I appreciate this service!

Jim

What can I say? This has been so much fun to read!! Caroline and Jim, if I could bow to the computer in "i'm not worthiness" I'd be doing it!! You two are so informative and knowledgable it's simply amazing.

I have to say it tickles me when I see people analyze this stuff to death. I've never been one to follow "a plan". Unless eating when I know my body needs fuel ( like Jim said, not when I'm hungry, just when I know I need to eat) and eating good food...is a plan. I'm certainly not about to say that I eat nothing but the greatest food all the time...but I have learned to make better choices, and have learned that I can eat too little food to have results.

Keep up this discussion....it's great, and it's so informative.

paint

We've carried on some mighty interesting threads before. I apologize if I got a little out of control! I do eat a good deal of protein, meat or fish with every meal, well almost, and protein bars for snacks, or nuts. How about whey protein, I've never tried any of that stuff, should I give it a try? What is your opinion of that stuff, other than its expensive. It always looked like a money making scheme to me, but maybe I've been wrong (not the first time, and probably not the last!). I was taking mega-minerals along with the handfull of vitamins I already take, but someone told me don't take iron so I stopped taking them. What's the deal with iron?

Thanks for the help!!

Bill

Hey Paint,

When it comes down to it, analyzing it to death is not necessary! I do it because I am learning and when it comes to non-traditional approaches, I want to make sure they make sense and are safe. Especially because I make recommendations to others.

Otherwise, eating good and staying active is all we really need to know in my opinion. That's not a lot to know!

Jim

Jim

Hi Bill -

Based on some of our previous conversations, it's a little ironic that I'm giving you this advice, but one thing you can do is overeat protein for a week or two. This would mean making sure that you get some protein, between 20-40 grams, each time you eat and bringing the protein content of your diet up to over 50%. For carbs, restrict all starches and mainly use fruits and veggies as a carb source. Keep your fats low and get most of it from fish, nuts, seeds, and avocados. Also, make sure that your electrolyte balance is okay and even supplement with something like Pedialyte if necessary. Also, I'd recommend a mineral supplement.

A couple of weeks of eating like this should yield some changes. Your muscle mass should increase, your fat should decrease, and your energy level should go up and then down. As it drops, start adding more carbs back into your diet but in the form of whole grains, not sugar or processed foods.

Can you explain why this 1-2 week change in diet works so quickly? I experimented over the last week and a half and am amazed at the change in my body fat. The little bit of love handles that I had actually disappeared that quickly. I felt that I didn't have any weight to lose, but I actually lost 4 lbs. All I did was increase my protein as you suggested and got my carbs from fruits, vegetables, beans and some whole grains -

What I did different was replaced my typical breakfast of 3 egg whites, one whole egg and a cup of one minute oatmeal with 3 egg whites, one whole egg and soy sausages and refrained from eating any whole grain bread and whole wheat pasta (I normally eat these). I ate more fruit beans and whole grains. I did not try to restrict my fat, I continued to eat fish, nuts, seeds and cooked with olive oil. I did restrict my saturated fat (except I continued to eat the egg yoke), but passed up my big fat juicy steak "cheat meal" I usually have on Friday evenings and had soy burgers instead. I mix black rice and wheat berries into my beans so I am continuing to get adequate quality carbs. My meals consisted of mostly large salads with salmon or chicken breast and some beans. That is normal for me except I concentrated more in adding more protein and having a small protein shake with my snacks (one scoop with skim milk). I also bought a bunch of soy products such as the burgers and sausages to help boost the protein.

I am really amazed at how quickly that worked, but want to understand why. I suspect that I actually took in fewer calories because the protein made me feel full. I did feel less hungry and didn't seem to lack energy. I plan to go back to my normal diet next week and see what happens.

Jim

Boy, this has really turned into a book. A lot of great info in here on so many various things I don't know what to title in when I move it to a "best of..." thread.

The latest is the temp protein boost and why it works. A book in itself, but here's the simple version:

The simple version is that when you deny yourself carbohydrates, your body's preferred fuel source, it turns to fat for energy prior to catabolizing muscle tissue. You have to eat something to make up the reduction of carbs, so you eat protein. You can also eat fat, but protein is healthier (with enough fat) because there will be some associated muscle catabolization with fat loss so by eating protein you try and minimize this.

Your body already uses fat for low-level activity, but you can train it to do this more efficiently. This forces the issue. Under duress (lack of fuel) your body will attempt to fuel high-level activity by converting fat to fuel by a process called ketosis. While a cool bodily function, the state of ketosis is not the be-all-end-all nirvana that many Atkins-ers would like to believe. It's hard on the body and an emergency function and has some fairly dangerous metabolic processes associated with it (longterm, not really short -- animals in ketosis are considered to be starving to death in the wild) that usually is punctuated by an alcohol smell coming from the body.

Bodybuilders use this sort of diet, an extreme version, when getting ready for competitions.

I use it to "kick-start" programs because, in my experience, most people eat too many carbs, especially processed carbs. This causes the consitant insulin spikes, lower metabolic processes, etc, the Atkins folks are always on about. So in a roundabout way, a high-protein diet will raise your metabolism because your insulin levels go down, and your digestive processes increase.

I will add this to a new exercise program because there is always an adaptive phase when your body is learning new movments and total caloric output drops because you are adapting. There is also a lot of muscle tissue breakdown in a adaptive phase, more reason for higher protein than normal.

So now there are three reasons:

1) accelerated fat usage
2) metabolic stability
3) repairing damaged muscle tissue but counteracting burning less cals

After a phase, all these things will change:

1) fat stores get lower, requiring more fuel
2) a stable metabolism is best fed through easier-to-digest foods, like carbs
3) as you adapt, you start to push harder to get the same breakdown, in turn burning more calories, hence needed more fuel.

This is why I add in more and more carbs over time, the more athletic one becomes.

So, that's the quick over. Make sense?

I do have one caveat - I am not convinced that I ate few enough carbs to put my body into a state of ketosis. I ate mostly beans, fruits and veggies and ate whole grains on most days, but increased my protein. Because I increased my protein, I most certainly ate fewer calories from carbs than normal. I still ate WAY more carbs than probably the highest amount of carbs an Atkins dieter would eat.

Any thoughts on that?

Jim